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Swap: TBI 454 in place of TBI 350, same model/year rigs
 
 PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Is this as simple as it appears? I need to figure out a plan to build or replace the tired TBI 350 in my 1987 Suburban and this might be a solution.

I found a TBI 454 from a 1987 Suburban, complete top to bottom/fan to flexplate, all accessories intact, and functional A/C. The entire donor is still available with more shit on it that I can use.

Bellhousing pattern is the same? What else would I want to grab in order to make this as simple as possible (besides the engine computer)? i don't yet know if the engine wiring harness has been hacked up or not.

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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:26 am 

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Its an exact bolt for bolt swap. Wiring harness is the same, so don't worry about the donor harness being hacked up. Leave the original computer in the truck, just change the EEPROM, it manages the engine, and the ECM manages the tranny. Bellhousing bolt pattern is exact match, the only thing you will need done, is to swap in the crossover pipe from the big block. You will need the big block TBI and adapter plate, they used a stock carburetted intake manifold with an adapter to bolt the TBI unit to the intake, with a big vacuum port on the back. You may want to change out the fuel pump in the tank for a big block pump, but it will only be necessary if you are going to drag race, or haul extremely heavy loads with the truck.

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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:39 pm 
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The motor is complete top to bottom, so the TBI, etc would all be there.

By crossover pipe, I assume you mean the y-pipe for the exhaust? I'm thinking either headers or just taking it to Muffler Man to bend up some duals. It needs an exhaust system as is it, anyway.

As for the fuel pump, I don't believe its the correct unit anyway, as the gauge never reads right and the PO said it might be a Blazer unit. Looks like the tank has a dent in the bottom, as I can only get about 33 gallons into it and I believe it should be 40. Might as well inquire about the donor's entire tank assembly, too.

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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:09 pm 

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Blazer and burban use the same tank, so it wouldn't matter, but swapping in the big block tank would be an ideal situation. I have a set of headers here for a BBC into a '73-'91 suburban here in the barn, that will sell for $150 with brand new 3 inch collectors if you're interested. I have to use F body headers because my '57 pickup is getting subframed with a '81 Z28 front end, and the truck headers won't fit.

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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:12 am 
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Zook94 wrote:
Blazer and burban use the same tank, so it wouldn't matter, but swapping in the big block tank would be an ideal situation.


How's that work when I can already put more than the Blazer's 31 gallons into my fucked up tank? :eek:

Zook94 wrote:
I have a set of headers here for a BBC into a '73-'91 suburban here in the barn, that will sell for $150 with brand new 3 inch collectors if you're interested. I have to use F body headers because my '57 pickup is getting subframed with a '81 Z28 front end, and the truck headers won't fit.


I will keep that in mind of this ends up happening as he says that it has ceramic coated headers on it, but that they are showing their age. The challenge is finding the time to get out to the West side.

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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:04 am 
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Sent the deposit today. Targeting the weekend of 2/26-2/28 for retrieval. Not going to fuck with the swap until it gets warmer, though.

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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:32 pm 

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Blazer and burban have the same dimensions for tanks, and you could get big tanks in blazers, and they came with big tanks if you ordered a towing package.

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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:15 pm 
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Zook94 wrote:
Blazer and burban have the same dimensions for tanks, and you could get big tanks in blazers, and they came with big tanks if you ordered a towing package.


Blazers came with 40-gallon tanks?

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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:00 am 

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Yes, they did. The rear frame section is exactly the same.

Option code is NE2 for the 40 gallon tank, Suburban and Blazer, although most all blazers came with the 31 gallon tank, and some came with the little 20 gallon.

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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:53 am 

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Zook94 wrote:
Its an exact bolt for bolt swap. Wiring harness is the same, so don't worry about the donor harness being hacked up. Leave the original computer in the truck, just change the EEPROM, it manages the engine, and the ECM manages the tranny. Bellhousing bolt pattern is exact match, the only thing you will need done, is to swap in the crossover pipe from the big block. You will need the big block TBI and adapter plate, they used a stock carburetted intake manifold with an adapter to bolt the TBI unit to the intake, with a big vacuum port on the back. You may want to change out the fuel pump in the tank for a big block pump, but it will only be necessary if you are going to drag race, or haul extremely heavy loads with the truck.



HIJACK... Zook I am doing the same thing replacing a 5.7 with a 7.4 and the are both 94's. The 7.4 was backed with a manual can I pull the blue removable prom from the 7.4 computer and put it into the 5.7 and it will run the 454/4l60e just fine? End HIJACK

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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:28 pm 

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KILLERB468 wrote:


HIJACK... Zook I am doing the same thing replacing a 5.7 with a 7.4 and the are both 94's. The 7.4 was backed with a manual can I pull the blue removable prom from the 7.4 computer and put it into the 5.7 and it will run the 454/4l60e just fine? End HIJACK


Its not quite as simple as that. You will have to change the wiring harness for the electronic shift harness. The ECM will work, but in 93/94 they held all of the shift programming on the EEPROM. GM never put a 4l60e behind a big block, so you will have to have a custom burned chip. TBIchips.com will hook you up with proper mapping/shift points. You can give him custom specs (camshaft, TBI bore, block overbore, shift points) and he can set up a perfect chip for your needs. Unfortunately, the 93/4 chips are single shot programmers, so once burned, you're done.

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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:06 pm 

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Zook94 wrote:
KILLERB468 wrote:


HIJACK... Zook I am doing the same thing replacing a 5.7 with a 7.4 and the are both 94's. The 7.4 was backed with a manual can I pull the blue removable prom from the 7.4 computer and put it into the 5.7 and it will run the 454/4l60e just fine? End HIJACK


Its not quite as simple as that. You will have to change the wiring harness for the electronic shift harness. The ECM will work, but in 93/94 they held all of the shift programming on the EEPROM. GM never put a 4l60e behind a big block, so you will have to have a custom burned chip. TBIchips.com will hook you up with proper mapping/shift points. You can give him custom specs (camshaft, TBI bore, block overbore, shift points) and he can set up a perfect chip for your needs. Unfortunately, the 93/4 chips are single shot programmers, so once burned, you're done.



thanks

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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:05 pm 

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Any additional information you need can be found at 454ss.com, or TBIchips.com. Both the same webmaster, but one is more general tech than the other.

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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:59 am 

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Zook94 wrote:
Any additional information you need can be found at 454ss.com, or TBIchips.com. Both the same webmaster, but one is more general tech than the other.



good deal... I also talked to
jim's performance and they can convert as well, by pulling the parameters off the 7.4 comp and putting them on the 5.7 comp.

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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:54 pm 

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The EEPROM's used for 93 and 94 are not reprogrammable, you need to start with a fresh, clean blank each time you fuck up. The transmission programming and engine programming are on the same chip. Make sure your buddy knows exactly what he's up to before plugging in the wrong chip and frying an ECM.

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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:29 pm 
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Here's the donor. Everything looks nice and intact/complete. :thumb: I'm going to take the entire nose and seats, too. The seats are a nice color match to the stripe on the diesel.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:34 pm 

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With as much work as you are doing, you might just as well do a body swap? Seems like it would be almost easier.

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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:02 am 
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Zook94 wrote:
With as much work as you are doing, you might just as well do a body swap? Seems like it would be almost easier.


The donor is 2wd and all the tan interior parts are for the other truck. They match the tan/gold exterior stripe very well.

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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:38 am 
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Brought the motor home yesterday. I'll be making another trip back there in a week to get more related parts, but the engine as complete top-to-bottom as shown in the pics and the core support was also in way better shape than mine, so I took that in addition to the 4-core radiator, condensor, and other associated parts. I also took the 40-gallon tank whole (forgot the straps/skid) and will start fresh with a new pump/sender asssembly. It will be nice to have a correctly-reading fuel gauge for once. :D

The headers that were on the truck were much more coroded down by the oil pan, so I passed on those. May be taking you up on yours, Zook. They fit a 4wd automatic?

This is where I'm foggy, though:

Zook94 wrote:
Leave the original computer in the truck, just change the EEPROM, it manages the engine, and the ECM manages the tranny.


Where is the EEPROM and what does it look like? Simpler/cheaper to get the one from the donor?

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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:18 pm 

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The EEPROM is inside the little cover on the top of the ECM, which is behind the glove box. You may not have enough parts to facilitate your swap easily. You are going to put a big block and a 4l60e together in your existing manual transmission'ed truck?

The headers I have will fit your application.

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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Zook94 wrote:
The EEPROM is inside the little cover on the top of the ECM, which is behind the glove box. You may not have enough parts to facilitate your swap easily. You are going to put a big block and a 4l60e together in your existing manual transmission'ed truck?

The headers I have will fit your application.


No, I'm putting a 454 in front of the existing 700r4 in my automatic transmission'd truck.

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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:20 pm 

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Ok, your harness will work fine, and an EEPROM from your 454 equipped vehicle should work. It contains a 700r4 as well?

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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:39 pm 
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Zook94 wrote:
Ok, your harness will work fine, and an EEPROM from your 454 equipped vehicle should work. It contains a 700r4 as well?


No. It was a 2wd TH400.

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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:23 am 

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Then you are going to need a chip for your EEPROM that has the 454 mapping and the 700r4 lockup controls. Wiring harness will fit perfectly.

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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:21 pm 

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be careful with headers. WHen I swapped out my tbi 350 for a 454 and bought headers......they claimed they fit 4wd bb trucks....all the way to 87.....turned out that they didnt clear a piece of the casting on the 700r4. I ended up with a set of hedmans that fit fine but it took a 1 set of returns and overnight shipping to get it right. IIRC the ones that didnt fit were the flowtechs.

Im not 100% positive but I don't think anything came with a BB and 700 from the factory. My guess being that it MIGHT not have been a factory application and thats why they didt fit. DIdnt most have the th400?

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