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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:14 pm 
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I've got a long ways to go but I've been driving it around anyway. A lot of stuff still needs tweaking... like I need lift springs for the front so I can lift the rear up so I can choose a better shock position... I need to find another transfer case solution before I put my short style adapter in so I can run a flat belly pan... the list goes on.

305TBI/SM465/clocked NP208. Locked 10 bolt with crossover, welded 12 bolt. The cab is moved 3" rearward, the motor 2.5" rearward, the rear axle 3" rearward, and the front axle 4.5" forward. 56" springs in the front and 64" of spring in the rear. It's 15' long. 39.5x15-15 TSLs.

We'll see how the half ton junk holds up. I've got a lot of spare parts. Hopefully welding the caps to the shafts and running slugs will help with longevity. I used to break shafts/joints and lockouts like twigs with 33" TSLs on my other truck. Hopefully 1000lbs fewer on the front axle and 700lbs fewer on the rear axle will keep it together better.

I only have $2300 into the whole thing... the expensive part was the hydro clutch/465/208 stuff... I have $800 into that alone.

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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:14 am 

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Not too bad, but a couple things stand out:


1. You need a new cab immediately. Simply flexing in a ditch causes your door to pop open? Invest now.

2. Front bumper. Your parking skills suck, and when you put the sheet metal back on, its gonna get all crumpled by those big tires.



:beer:


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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:54 am 
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Im actually kinda impressed / suprised that you can get your front tire up on that car with out lifting a rear. Its hard to tell in the pic, but it looks like the rear tire is still on the ground. Anyway, it also looks like alot of that is coming from chassis flex in that pic. Are you planning on running any tube? putting a body back on? or what? The tube will stiffen it and reduce the amount of flex you are getting and a body will get bent for sure. Just wondering what you were planning on doing? You better be nice to those axles or snap crackle pop for sure.

:beer:

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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:49 am 
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Zook94 wrote:
1. You need a new cab immediately. Simply flexing in a ditch causes your door to pop open? Invest now.


Haha. If you notice, there are no door handles on the outside of the doors. Therefore, it's a lot easier to leave the door open when you get out than reach over the door and pull the handle. The cab has all new metal welded in. I have some spankin' new CJ7 door handles that I'm putting in.

Zook94 wrote:
2. Front bumper. Your parking skills suck, and when you put the sheet metal back on, its gonna get all crumpled by those big tires.


Well, I started building this thing from a bare frame March 7th, 2005. If you notice, the cab to front tire ratio is way off. I'll be running the rear part of the fender in its entirety without cutting but I'll have no front part of the fender.


Mr.Green wrote:
Im actually kinda impressed / suprised that you can get your front tire up on that car with out lifting a rear. Its hard to tell in the pic, but it looks like the rear tire is still on the ground. Anyway, it also looks like alot of that is coming from chassis flex in that pic.


Well, I have 21" of wheel travel on each axle and like no weight. I drove up the door of the Cadillac. Ten feet of leaf spring will do that for you, especially when you only have 113" of wheelbase. In the front, I run out of hose before I run out of spring. It scores 1200 on a 20° ramp before I run out of hose. I run out of spline in the front driveshaft before I run out of spring.

A lot does come from chassis flex. GM frames usually flex about .25-.5" per foot of frame. Mine is much worse right now due to the fact that I'm using all rubber for the body lift (still haven't put the plastic in yet) and the fact there is no steel tying anything together. Running a front clip eliminates a lot of flex and tying the 4' of bed I've got together will eliminate a lot of flex. You just have to be careful how you eliminate it because if you put the nodes in the wrong spot you'll fatigue the frame.

Mr.Green wrote:
Are you planning on running any tube? putting a body back on? or what? The tube will stiffen it and reduce the amount of flex you are getting and a body will get bent for sure. Just wondering what you were planning on doing? You better be nice to those axles or snap crackle pop for sure.


No, no tube. Tube is for tube chassis vehicles. If you want to make an interior cage that ties into the body mounts, fine. But tube is for tube chassis vehicles. The worst thing someone can do with tube that is hooked to the body is run it straight to the frame without rubber... guaranteed cracking of the frame. If not, you can be assured that it'll ruin the cab. He'll end up ruining the cab if not breaking the glass also.

I'll be running a narrowed and tapered front clip on it. It'll stiffen up the frame a lot. The only bending of the body I'm worried about are trees. When the front clip is hooked to the cab they flex as one piece. it'll be narrowed something like this but it'll also be tapered


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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:41 am 

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Damn, a guy can't even TRY to be funny anymore....

:rolleyes:


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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:11 pm 
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Zook94 wrote:
Damn, a guy can't even TRY to be funny anymore....

:rolleyes:


No, it's just that it wasn't that funny... try harder.

Now these on a Chevy with a sticker that says "Real Jeeps are built not bought" is funny:
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 pm 
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No it isnt.

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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:46 pm 
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Mr.Green wrote:
No it isnt.


Yeah it is, you just have penile envy.


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:30 pm 
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SHUT UP!

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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:46 pm 

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Mr.Green wrote:
SHUT UP!

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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:25 pm 
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Mr.Green wrote:
SHUT UP!


Yeap, I knew it.


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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:53 pm 
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:27 pm 
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Don't you have some fudge to pack? I'm not talking Mackinac Island kind either.


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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:26 pm 
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thats right, not the macinac kind!

Burrrrrrn!

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 PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:45 pm 

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/on topic threadjack

Wrath,

I like the rig - quite a transformation in a couple months time. When you re-body it, yes you'll eliminate some flex, but won't this amplify the stress nodes between the cab & the bed? I've seen cracks either there, or at the steering box, but the steering cracks aren't from flex. Just rambling...

Curious how you did the hydro clutch/ 465 setup, as I'm going to be doing a similar setup in the near to far future (have parts, no time.)

I was planning a master cylinder/ clutch pedal from a donor S-10 that used to be stick shift, but I don't think the slave will work right. I've heard of people using a T-5 tranny slave from a Camaro, but have not looked at it personally.

Any help is appreciated.

-Nate

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 PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:08 pm 
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Well, frame flex is good except when it's forced in certain areas and it sees work hardening. A gentle twist over a foot isn't anything to worry about. It's when there is constant deflection in a small area that causes problems. Ideally, you want all your stress put on the 8 spots where your leaf springs hook up. It's why a Chevy frame can see obnoxious amounts of twist over the years when they're bone stock (leaf springs and no cage) but usually after a year of someone building a cage it cracks. Without paying careful attention to the 4 link it'll cause it as well.

The steering box area sees a lot of abuse. If you think about how many times that 10" area gets flexed you have renewed faith in frames. That push-pull steering is constantly flexing the frame front to rear. Then when crossover goes on it not only has the front to rear flex but the side to side flex.

If you ever notice... on a factory Chevy setup...
The front core support mounts are tied into the front spring hanger brackets. In the rear on a K5 (factory one piece tub) the rearmost cab mount is right in line with the rear spring hanger. On factory pickup boxes the second from front box bolt actually passes through the frame and bolts into the front spring hanger.


If you look on mine... you'll see that the cab mount sits right inside the front rear spring hanger. The core support brackets aren't directly tied to the spring hangers but they are both tied together using a piece of 3/8"x4" angle. So, it effectively is one node.



I used all factory parts on my hydro setup. I used a stock replacement slave cylinder. I think it doesn't work right because it takes a full pedal to completely disengage the clutch. And that's after making a 7/8" longer rod because the one it came with seemed too short. The only things not-new in my system are the master cylinder, bellhousing, and pedals. I was thinking about trying to replace the master cylinder because maybe the bore is messed up or something.

Does the S10 master cylinder have a remote reservoir? If it does, the reservoir will work. More than likely the hose will work. The master cylinder might... same goes for the slave cylinder. I wouldn't bet on the slave working though.


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 PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 3:03 pm 

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I see where you're going with the frame flex, and agree with what you are saying. My only point, if I had one, is that the truck essentially has two six-point (ish...) body connections isolated from two four-point spring connections with the exception of the frame chunk between the front bed mount and rear cab mount. Really, flex is more distributed between the rear of the front spring hanger and front of the rear, as you were stating, but the forces are exaggerated between the two seperate body structures.

This flex doesn't necessarily lead to cracks, but the moment placed on the rails between the two previously mentioned spring points leads to cracks, typically from overloading or abuse. A cage can solve that moment issue, but then drive the stresses elsewhere and lead to failure.

Similarly, but different, the steering box failures are either from overloading or abuse (big tires, rocks...) or fatigue over many years of operation.

All in all, I think we're saying the same thing a different way. I just didn't explain much in my first go round. The way you've tied into the spring mounts should make it reasonably solid without being too ridgid and snapping pieces off.

Re: hydro clutch - the master cylinder has a remote reservoir. I am not sure if my pedal assembly will work with its current throw. The line works more or less, but requires a special fitting at the slave. The slave from a Camaro works on a V-8 T-5 (say you were swapping a small block T-5 into an S-10) but I am not sure if it can be retrofit to the 465. I probably won't know for a while, as that junk is currently collecting bat shit.

-Nate

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 PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:35 pm 
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I know the bore is the same on both a S10's T5 and a SM465. I'm pretty sure the pattern is the same also. I'm not sure if the stroke is the same. I suspect the main difference between the two are the fittings. I figured later S10s used something besides a double flare.


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